I have noticed today that many conservative Christians are upset by President Obama's decision not to hold a public National Day of Prayer event.
I am just interested if anyone here has thoughts about that particular situation. Is your opinion affected by Jesus' instructions in Matthew: 5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
I find it refreshing to see a leader who views his faith as something personal and chooses not to exploit it for political purposes. He could have scored some points today, but he chose integrity. That's my opinion.
What a great viewpoint.
ReplyDeleteI saw the report that Obama was not attending the public ceremonies, but would be participating at the White House in private. I'm fine with this. I'm always a little uncomfortable when we have the elected officials attending such events in official capacity. If they want to attend as a private individual that is fine with me. To each his own. But if you are there in official elected representative fashion, then that is a gray area that I'm not comfortable with.
I know many will complain because we are a "Christian Nation". However, I'm not for sure that's true. See DVDInterrobang's blog for a great discussion on this topic.
I would hardly think that his motives reflect any sort of integrity, but rather an obvious pandering to a portion of his party. It is a mealy-mouthed "I'm okay, you're okay, we will all go to heaven no matter what" type of religious response. By purporting to take some vague "high road" he is really just running from the issue, which is frightening in one sense and expected in another. I do not care if if he participates in this sort of thing or not, it couldn't matter less. But the way it will be spun is that he won't use religion as a divisive issue, which is completely disingenuous. Of course he is using it for his political gain-just in the exact opposite way of people like Bush.
ReplyDelete-Mike U.
I had no idea it was national day of prayer or that anyone was upset about the President's plans for the day.
ReplyDeleteI find the comment right before me pretty funny. He calls it spin if the POTUS participates publicly (e.g., Bush) and spin if the POTUS declines to participate publicly (e.g., Obama). Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't! Hilarious. Perhaps the commenter doesn't realize that Federal Law REQUIRES the POTUS to declare a National Day of Prayer (link provided below). It's probably an unconstitutional law, but no court has yet decided that issue so the POTUS is required to follow it.
As for how the POTUS personally decides to participate, I was okay with Bush having people over to his house and praying with them (he was inclusive of the various mainstream faiths) and I am okay with Obama deciding he'll pray by himself in his house.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/usc_sec_36_00000119----000-.html
The fact is, we cannot know his intentions. Of course he is politically motivated in most actions. But I have appreciated his style of discourse on faith. While it still informs his decisions, he has other foundations for those as well.
ReplyDeleteI actually viewed the stance in the opposite way, Mike. Rather than seeing it as not taking a stance on his particular faith, or being mealy-mouthed in his approach, I saw this as his opportunity to establish a recognition to his particular Christian faith. Because he is praying privately today, he will be able to pray in a very personal and "Christian" way. However, if he chose to have a public ceremony, he would (as every governor & president) be forced to use at least mildly - probably largely - inclusive language. Since the Day itself was established as an interfaith recognition of prayer, most recognize the need to be inclusive in their language.
Also, still interested in a take on Jesus' words about praying privately. Thoughts?
Jesus said many things about prayer, not just this one thing, as specifically also quoted in Alan Colmes piece, http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/05/06/colmes_obama_prayer/
ReplyDeleteWe cannot take just one slice of Jesus' teaching and state it as being a complete piece. That misses a lot. Therefore, I cannot take this quote as supportive proof of the intent of Jesus in how the POTUS should pray.
Just because Jesus said other things about prayer doesn't mean that this one thing isn't valid. We can also look to his example. He went up into the mountains or desert and garden to pray . . . by himself . . . an awful lot. Almost the only public prayers he made were simply cries out to God, whether of gratitude or desperation.
ReplyDeleteI'm not even saying that the POTUS should not participate in public prayer. I'm just saying that it's refreshing to me because I, too, prefer to keep my conversations with God between the two of us.
I really do appreciate the discussion. Seems like one worth having in my opinion. I guess that's obvious since I posted the blog!
You said, "He could have scored some points today, but he chose integrity. That's my opinion." He did score--as most people now do not want Christ as part of their daily life, more and more, especially the younger generation. A moral landscape with God as a guiding light will soon be no more. With the far left, who hug their trees, pray to Mother Earth, marry their same-sex partners, devalue marriage, and do what feels good--God is Dead. This is one step in their direction. The extremists celebrate this--He DID score points!
ReplyDeleteYes, Jesus' prayed alone. And he set an example to the masses in mass, too. "Today you will be with me in paradise" was spoken very publicly. Only Jesus could get that sinner there. Obama doesn't need Jesus; that's how it looks from here.
M U
M.U., at least I could find your prior comment humorous. This one is just plain mean, dude, and about as "un-Jesus" as I've ever seen. You paint with a broad, mean-spirited brush about people that you don't know at all. In your words, it would seem that God was not a "guiding light" in your thoughts about your brothers and sisters at all. Peace, dude.
ReplyDeleteSome people in a zealous attempt to protect their religion and their sense of rightness (or perhaps more accurately their righteousness) feel the need to pass judgment on those that do not believe the same way. What seems to get lost is the fact that Jesus spent his life with, serving with, and accepting the very type of people vilified by some Christians today. In an attempt to be Christ-like, many Christians have forgotten that to be Christ-like is to be loving, accepting, and caring for all people, no matter their occupation, history, social status, or view points. In many ways it seems that the pretext of the old saying "Love the sinner hate the sin" has been done away with and has been replaced with "Hate the sinner". That is a sad day for a religion and belief system based on love and grace.
ReplyDeleteYou miss my point, guys. This isn't about a person, it is about the POTUS. He is an office. He is legally obligated, as pointed out, mandated by law, to "render to Caesar's what is Caesar's": To declare the National Day of Prayer, which, since this event has been in place for over 50 years now, would require a public showing, statement, and acknowledgement.
ReplyDeleteDVD, you do not speak in love. I am not hilarious; I am serious. Follow up on the next generation.
The law does not require public prayer. It only requires the President to declare a day of prayer so that people can participate in "prayer and meditation at churches, in groups, and as individuals". He declared today to be that day, thus, complying with the law.
ReplyDeleteI think the issue that started this whole debate was the fact that he was not having a public prayer and people were making a big deal about it. However, the law only requires him to declare a day of prayer not declare a day of prayer and hold a public gathering of prayer. His office did what it was required to do. Declare the day. He did what he individually wanted to do (and which is legal) and participated in such day individually. Caesar got his.
Thank you, well said.
ReplyDeleteObama said before he was elected he is a Christian. He has no church (yes, I know this isn't a requirement, however...), and now this. He doesn't act the part of the platform which helped him get elected.
I appreciate most of the conversation, barring the hatefulness. Thanks for this last piece, Erick.
MU (I assume that is because of your staunch support of all things Tigers), you bring up a couple of other interesting points in your last post. They may be beyond the scope of this blog though. Briefly:
ReplyDeleteI haven't had a public prayer service today. Is that un-Christian? I would argue not. In reality to me it seems a little hokey to have a day of prayer. What about the other 364 days? I took care of it on the National Day of Prayer God. See you next year.
I also don't attend Church regularly. In fact, lately, I'd be hard pressed to say I have a traditional church home. I have a place I go when I do go to church, but I don't know if that is my church home. Is that un-Christian. I don't think so. I do have community with other individuals where we discuss life, love, care, grace, mercy, grief, anger, God, Allah, prayer, and the like. Is that any less of a "church"? I don't think so. A cross, pulpit and preacher do not a church make.
Just a couple quick thoughts. Laurie's never going to believe me when I say I've been busy today.
Umm... FYI: Mike U. and M U ; not the same people here. (But Mike U. does want to make clear that he does still hate Mizzou Football)
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I love the verse! I think about it whenever we go out to eat with people who pray in restaurants. But if I look at that verse and that verse alone in the Bible, how can I go to church and pray publicly there? There are other verses to consider when deciding when and where to pray.
As far as Obama goes, it's clear that by sitting out of the National Day of Prayer and not gathering together with his fellow Americans as our leader he is just pandering to the liberals who think Christianity is stupid and has no place in a "forward thinking" society. He acts as though he is above religion just as he and his wife act as though they are above Americans (as they fly around the world apologizing for us).
Just participate in the National Day of Prayer, man. It might do some good to see our president humbling himself before God and asking for help while the nation struggles. Besides, it's free.
Gena U.
apologies to MU for questing his/her love of Tigers.
ReplyDeleteMike U: Just FYI I prayed publicly for you that you would turn from the dark side and come to love the Tigers like any good, respecting Missourah citizen.
This is awesome! I missed a lot of conversation while pricing the garage sale. Really cheap, by the way.
ReplyDeleteMU, you could not have expected to use such offensive and emotionally-charged language without inciting an equally emotional response. That's just to be expected. I agree with DVD that the language is very unloving and pretty untrue really. God is NOT dead within any of those communities you mention - except those who de-value marriage, and I'm not sure who they are. God is very alive and real to most of the "liberal thinkers" that I have come across. The Reformist Protestant church, however, may in fact be dead to many of them, although I wouldn't want to characterize an entire segment of American culture in that, or any other, way.
Back to the issue at hand, though, I do want to challenge the idea that he scored points with any group. I definitely agree that there is a group of people out there that does not value the National Day of Prayer. However, most of them don't even know it exists or that the POTUS is supposed to participate.
So points would be very few as far as I can see. I certainly don't think his public participation in NDOP (that's what I'm calling it now) reflects negatively on his Christian faith any more than President Bush's participation made his faith more legitimate.
Good point, though, Gena. Free entertainment always scores more points with me. And what's more entertaining than a Democratic POTUS entertaining a hostile NDOP leadership on the White House grounds?
I'm confused as to who said what, so it seems pointless to try to respond to anything, though I will aver that love can find humor in strange places. One thing seems apparent, the comments here are evidence that many people hold their view of prayer very personally. Since the POTUS represents all Americans, including Muslims, Jews, Atheists and those who don't give a rip, it seems that Obama made a wise choice. But I'll fall back to part of Mike U's original point and agree with it - damned if he did, damned if he didn't.
ReplyDeleteI prayed today - and yesterday, and the day before and the day before.... and I'll pray tomorrow - all in private. It's a part of my relationship with Christ that is very personal.
ReplyDeleteditto Deb! Thanks for adding.
ReplyDeleteI don't worship Christ and am a bit offended by your comment about who you pray to!
ReplyDeletesome of us pray to other deities.
anon- Certainly didn't mean to offend! Please let me know to which comment you are referring. Honestly, I just want to know what language I need to clarify.
ReplyDeleteI think the one benefit of the establishment of the National Day of Prayer was that it encouraged people of all faiths to pray to whichever Deity responds to them. Sorry if I misspoke or was unclear in that.
I AM offended also by all this talk of God and prayer. God is not who I pray to and that is very offensive and hateful to me. That discourse has no place in this discussion!
ReplyDeleteI came by to find the grieving blog. Wow!
ReplyDeleteDon't feel worthy amongst such learned people to weigh in here. I am on the conservative side, and am fine with that, and don't consider myself 'less-learned,' or unenlightened for being so.
Now I'll try to go back and find where I was going to just check in!
Amy
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"
ReplyDeleteReligion aside, this probably wouldn't have been a big deal had not our President made the statement, while on a tour of the middle-east, that "America is not a Christian nation and that the nations of Islam have contributed greatly to the U S and the rest of the world". Perhaps our President missed, in his American history studies, that our founders established the U S on Christian principles, or in my studies did I miss the chapter on Islam's contributions? What have been their contributions? Did they contribute during our revolution, war between the states, WWI, WWII or at any time we may have needed help, either financial or emotional? It appears that they only came around when it was in their best interests.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this isn't so much about the National Day of Prayer as it about changing our traditions and appearing to be another frightening step down the road to socialism, that to some appears to be our President's agenda.
Sorry for the rant, but sometimes I feel like a dinosaur and they are draining the swamp.